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Conjur Confusion
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Author:  D_Black [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Conjur Confusion
Okay, so I'm rereading the whole Harry Potter series again and came across a part in the 'Chamber of Secrets' (pg. 83, first paragraph of the American copy) where McG conjurs up a platter of food for Harry and Ron after they finish getting yelled at for rolling up to the castle in Mr. Weasly's pimp-mobile instead of taking the train like everyone else...

But according to the laws of conjuration, food is one item that can't be done.
*cough*Along with human transmutations*cough* ;)

"There are laws of magic (as opposed to human legislation) governing what you can conjure and what you can't, such as Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration, to which food is one of the five exceptions (you can't create food out of nothing)"

Sooo what's up?
-----

EDIT:
I just noticed that the reference to the laws of conjuration were made in 'Deathly Hallows' and JKR is infamous for being a scatter brain on details.
*cough*...and randomly making characters change their sexual orientation.*cough*
Author:  Banana Pancakes [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Quote:
Hermione: "It’s impossible to make good food out of nothing! You can Summon it if you know where it is, you can transform it, you can increase the quantity if you’ve already got some..."


She knew where the food was, the kitchens. ;) Perhaps that's what she's talking about, and what McGonnagall did.

But I do see your point, and so does the HarryPotterWiki.

Quote:
Food can´t be conjured, but this is what Minerva McGonagall seems to do in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. However, it is possible that she used a Summoning Charm. Molly Weasley also appears to conjure sauce into a pan in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. However, Gamp's law announces that you cannot create new food out of nothing, but you can conjure it if you know where it is.
Author:  Skullcleaver [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
I also recall Dumbledore making a bottle of mead and several glasses appear out of thin air while he visits the Dursleys in Half-Blood Prince. The same is true when Harry and Dumble dive into the pencieve to visit a young Tom Riddle at the orphanage. Here he conjures some liquor and a pair of glasses as well. It even states that they "hadn't been there a moment before".

Now...we should consider who we're dealing with here for a moment. It's -Dumbledore-.
He can cast a Disillusionment charm so powerful it renders him completely invisible. The same goes for Voldemort, who, in Deathly Hallows, uses a Disillusionment charm so potent he "became invisible to even his own eyes" (Which sounds rather impractical, if you ask me :| ). Hell, Voldemort's stealing the show by flying on his own accord. No broomstick, no Thestral, no nothing. And it was stated before in the books that there were no means of magical flight without some kind of help, but Voldemort pulled it off anyway.

So I can excuse Dumbledore summoning mead and glasses, but having Molly pouring sauce from the tip of her wand in Order of the Phoenix does seem to be pushing it. (For the record, I've recently reread all the books, so the inconsistencies do show up every so often).

I can only conclude that JKR usually just lets her imagination flow. Sometimes wandless magic is used just to add some flare, like Dumbledore clapping his hands in Philosopher's Stone to make the food appear on the house tables (Maybe he had Flitwick standing behind his back to sommon the lot from the kitchens? :P ).

Overall, I would stick with what JKR determined in the later books as a standard for the server, since she worked things out more thoroughly by that time. (We even have Dumbledore flying from Hogwarts to the Ministery of Magic in Philosopher's Stone, which might very well mean she hadn't properly worked out the working of the Floo network and Apparation).

...Okay, this post became way longer than I meant it to...but oh well, at least there's plenty of examples! :mrgreen:

~Skullymacthomas
Author:  Shifty [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
We thought long and hard about this while working on the curriculum over the summer, lol. The resolution we came to, if I remember correctly, was that every instance in the books where it looks like conjuring food was actually summoning food, like Chelsea mentioned. The bit that I added was that, perhaps, wizards who were older and more experienced could "summon" something and it would just pop from where it was to where they needed it. In which case Mollys sauce was probably in a cupboard or something and she poofed it into the pan.
Author:  RT [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Don't forget to add to all that the fact that JKR contradicts herself like mad. :wink:
Author:  D_Black [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
D_Black wrote:
JKR is infamous for being a scatter brain on details.


RT wrote:
Don't forget to add to all that the fact that JKR contradicts herself like mad. :wink:
Author:  Shifty [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Lol, while that is always absolutely true, we tended to ignore that fact. Cause it doesn't help us on the server make any determination on things. :D

I consider it one of the things that makes her "charming." :D
Author:  D_Black [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Feargus wrote:
I consider it one of the things that makes her "charming." :D


"Charming" as in "gifted" or "special" with an 'R' and no 'T'.
Author:  diabosatan [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
If her name was JKRT, I would be plotting something like: "Just Kidding, I'm RedTonic".

ph41l.
Author:  Reebober [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Not sure if this is helpful or relevant to the discussion, but I am fond of the view that food, or food "looking" items can be conjured, but they offer no nutritional value at all. So it's like fake food, not the real deal. That's how I've always roleplayed it on the server.
Author:  Shifty [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
I see no reason why fake food couldn't be conjured, it'd technically just be an object like any other, just an edible object. The trouble in the books is that the things they were "conjuring" were really supposed to be real food. I doubt Molly would feed her family fake sauce, lol. Which is where th "summoning" idea comes in.

Man, I've missed having these discussions. We used to do his all the time.
Author:  Templar [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Conjure food vs summoned food.

I figure its like apparition except you really don't care as much if it gets spliched. I mean if you can Accio something if fly's toward you. but if you get the mini version of apparition down you can apparate something to you if you know where it is and are familiar with it.
Author:  Shifty [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Yeah, pretty much like object apparation. I like that analogy.
Author:  Charity [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conjur Confusion
Feargus wrote:
I doubt Molly would feed her family fake sauce, lol.


I can't believe it's not butter sauce. :roll:
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